SuperVidel demo videos

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby instream » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:10 am

wongck wrote:€ 350... I am still thinking very hard to get one.


You can still register and only select the lower price category, which tops at 311 Euro (including swedish VAT 25%). We have now sent a request for a quote for the main components of the SV. When we get it back we should be able to give a somewhat better price estimation. But it already leans heavily towards the lower half of the lower price region since we now have 80 registered boards. :mrgreen:

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:21 am

instream wrote:You can still register and only select the lower price category, which tops at 311 Euro (including swedish VAT 25%). We have now sent a request for a quote for the main components of the SV. When we get it back we should be able to give a somewhat better price estimation. But it already leans heavily towards the lower half of the lower price region since we now have 80 registered boards. :mrgreen:


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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:31 am

The numbers on the web site don't add up.
It has 71 updated but 50 who have not, so total is 121 registration.
Lower price is 80 and upper price is 64 which gives 144 .
The upper and lower price numbers are double counted ??
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:21 pm

joska wrote:
instream wrote:It sounds like a long-shot that our SuperBlitter would fit the VHDL code of the Firebee, mainly since it is created for a different FPGA chip. But doesn't it already have a blitter? :)


I wasn't thinking about the actual code, but keeping any Supervidel/Firebee-extensions to the Videl compatible.


Could you elaborate this? :)

The SuperVidel keeps the existing VIDEL-API w. some minor extensions to add new desktop resolutions. In addition to this, it will have a SuperVidel-specific API to set resolutions and framebuffer base (this is done separately for each monitor). For allocation of video ram, it implements ct60_vmalloc(), which is also available on the CTPCI/Radeon.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby joska » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:51 pm

I was thinking of implementing stuff like fills, mono-expansion, lines etc in the FPGA. But this is perhaps not planned?
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:52 pm

joska wrote:I was thinking of implementing stuff like fills, mono-expansion, lines etc in the FPGA. But this is perhaps not planned?


Blitter accelerates filled rectangles + fill patterns, horizontal lines (to some degree, it's hard to compete with the CPU for smaller operations such as that one due to setup times), and opaque blits (well, alpha-blits too, but the VDI doesn't support it).

Nature can probably explain this better, but basically it doesn't make much sense to accellerate stuff which doesn't result in sequencial memory accesses. This is an inherent "feature" of DDR memory, afaik. This means vertical/arbitrary lines won't be accelerated, since these primitives can be done fairly efficiently with the CPU anyway.

About mono-expand blits - not accelerated at the moment. Looking at the various NVDI drivers (Rage, ET4k and Matrix), I got the impression that this isn't accelerated at all on those cards (at least not by NVDI). What stuff will benefit from that in practice? Text rendering, or just mono-icons and other mono bitmaps?
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby instream » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:38 pm

wongck wrote:The numbers on the web site don't add up.
It has 71 updated but 50 who have not, so total is 121 registration.
Lower price is 80 and upper price is 64 which gives 144 .
The upper and lower price numbers are double counted ??


First of all, we don't count the old registrations before Feb 1st 2011 at all anymore. The number we show on our homepage is only there as a reminder of how many people have not re-registered yet. Some of the new 71 people have not registered before Feb 1st 2011 at all, while some who had registered before have chosen not re-register. Some of the re-registering people have forgotten their old passwords and usernames and just created a new registration without removing the old one. So you can't compare those numbers...

You can't just add the 80 lower price region boards to the upper price region boards. They overlap each other. 16 of the registered 80 lower price boards will not be bought if we can't promise a price that is in the lower price range. Hence the 64 boards in the upper price range. :)

Is it clearer now? :P

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby joska » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:24 pm

shoggoth wrote:Blitter accelerates filled rectangles + fill patterns, horizontal lines (to some degree, it's hard to compete with the CPU for smaller operations such as that one due to setup times), and opaque blits (well, alpha-blits too, but the VDI doesn't support it).

Nature can probably explain this better, but basically it doesn't make much sense to accellerate stuff which doesn't result in sequencial memory accesses. This is an inherent "feature" of DDR memory, afaik. This means vertical/arbitrary lines won't be accelerated, since these primitives can be done fairly efficiently with the CPU anyway.


Ok, I see. Both my Milan and my Falcon (both with ATI Rage PCI-cards) use the accelerated primitives of the graphics card. This includes lines, and the speed increase is dramatic. However, I guess that the CPU<->videoRAM bus is much, much faster with the CT60/Supervidel, so the CPU might do this just as quick. I didn't think of that.

shoggoth wrote:About mono-expand blits - not accelerated at the moment. Looking at the various NVDI drivers (Rage, ET4k and Matrix), I got the impression that this isn't accelerated at all on those cards (at least not by NVDI). What stuff will benefit from that in practice? Text rendering, or just mono-icons and other mono bitmaps?


It's used on my Falcon, and it's used by the text rendered. The speed increase is notable. It might be of less value on a Supervidel in bitplane modes though.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:35 pm

instream wrote:First of all, we don't count the old registrations before Feb 1st 2011 at all anymore. The number we show on our homepage is only there as a reminder of how many people have not re-registered yet. Some of the new 71 people have not registered before Feb 1st 2011 at all, while some who had registered before have chosen not re-register. Some of the re-registering people have forgotten their old passwords and usernames and just created a new registration without removing the old one. So you can't compare those numbers...

You can't just add the 80 lower price region boards to the upper price region boards. They overlap each other. 16 of the registered 80 lower price boards will not be bought if we can't promise a price that is in the lower price range. Hence the 64 boards in the upper price range. :)

Is it clearer now? :P


Yeap. Thanks.
So there for sure 64 buyers, another 16 more if the price is right.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:09 am

joska wrote:
shoggoth wrote:About mono-expand blits - not accelerated at the moment. Looking at the various NVDI drivers (Rage, ET4k and Matrix), I got the impression that this isn't accelerated at all on those cards (at least not by NVDI). What stuff will benefit from that in practice? Text rendering, or just mono-icons and other mono bitmaps?


It's used on my Falcon, and it's used by the text rendered. The speed increase is notable. It might be of less value on a Supervidel in bitplane modes though.


Bitplane modes are mostly there for backwards compatibility. It has not been targeted for acceleration, mainly because there is no need for it in practice (NVDI + SuperVidel is fast enough for those modes anyway, and since you have a choice it makes more sense to use chunky modes in GEM).

Mono-expand-blits are not accelerated (yet), but if there is a need for it, it can be added later (Tobbe? Henke?). Alpha text doesn't use mono-expand blits, but I guess VDI graphical text does. The NVDI code for that stuff seems very quick & optimized though.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby instream » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:46 pm

shoggoth wrote:
joska wrote:
shoggoth wrote:About mono-expand blits - not accelerated at the moment. Looking at the various NVDI drivers (Rage, ET4k and Matrix), I got the impression that this isn't accelerated at all on those cards (at least not by NVDI). What stuff will benefit from that in practice? Text rendering, or just mono-icons and other mono bitmaps?


It's used on my Falcon, and it's used by the text rendered. The speed increase is notable. It might be of less value on a Supervidel in bitplane modes though.


Bitplane modes are mostly there for backwards compatibility. It has not been targeted for acceleration, mainly because there is no need for it in practice (NVDI + SuperVidel is fast enough for those modes anyway, and since you have a choice it makes more sense to use chunky modes in GEM).

Mono-expand-blits are not accelerated (yet), but if there is a need for it, it can be added later (Tobbe? Henke?). Alpha text doesn't use mono-expand blits, but I guess VDI graphical text does. The NVDI code for that stuff seems very quick & optimized though.


The bitplane modes already benefit from the faster graphics RAM writing that we showed in the first demo video.
Sure we can add mono-expand blits :) But this is up for discussion during the weekend here I guess, Peter? :mrgreen:

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby Frank B » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:56 pm

The existing blitter can already mono expand onto a 16 bpp screen.
Smudge mode should do that quite nicely. :) Might be quicker to use the CPU though :)

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:33 pm

instream wrote:The bitplane modes already benefit from the faster graphics RAM writing that we showed in the first demo video. Sure we can add mono-expand blits :) But this is up for discussion during the weekend here I guess, Peter? :mrgreen:


Sure. Tacos, beer & mono-expand blits :)
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby instream » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:15 pm

Hi folks!

Just uploaded the 5th SuperVidel demo video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwD8hSVF_E

where we show dual screen desktop and full screen Aniplayer playback.

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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby joska » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:40 pm

instream wrote:where we show dual screen desktop and full screen Aniplayer playback.


Very impressive stuff. If I had a CT60 I wouldn't hesitate buying one of these. Looks to me to be a much neater solution than PCI. Please let me know if you decide to make one for the Afterburner ;)
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:05 am

joska wrote:Very impressive stuff. If I had a CT60 I wouldn't hesitate buying one of these. Looks to me to be a much neater solution than PCI. Please let me know if you decide to make one for the Afterburner ;)


Well, there i a CT60 @ german ebay... :) Auction ends in 2 days.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby joska » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:20 am

shoggoth wrote:
joska wrote:Very impressive stuff. If I had a CT60 I wouldn't hesitate buying one of these. Looks to me to be a much neater solution than PCI. Please let me know if you decide to make one for the Afterburner ;)


Well, there i a CT60 @ german ebay... :) Auction ends in 2 days.


Not a chance :) I already have a Falcon/Afterburner, a Milan060 and a Firebee. Spending lots of money on a machine I don't even have desk space for is not going to happen.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby shoggoth » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:59 am

joska wrote:Not a chance :) I already have a Falcon/Afterburner, a Milan060 and a Firebee. Spending lots of money on a machine I don't even have desk space for is not going to happen.


What can possibly go wrong? I do that all the time! And... my girlfriend loves it. And my computer room is not a mess. And visitors don't think I'm a geek. And pigs can fly :)

Nah, be a man about it! Get rid of that Afterburner and replace it with a CT60. Join our little club of inbred awesomeness.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:30 am

shoggoth wrote:What can possibly go wrong? I do that all the time! And... my girlfriend loves it. And my computer room is not a mess. And visitors don't think I'm a geek. And pigs can fly :)


OMG 8O sounds just like my computer room... not a mess in sight and also there's a pig flying in it.... but it's flys backwards !!
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby Dal » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 am

My computer room has to masquerade as an 'Office' in order to escape the wrath of the wife.... It gets tidied once a year whether it needs it or not ;)
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby joska » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:51 am

shoggoth wrote:Nah, be a man about it! Get rid of that Afterburner and replace it with a CT60. Join our little club of inbred awesomeness.


I've had that Afterburner since 1997. I can assure you that I will never, ever get rid of it. If I were to buy a CT60 I'd fit it to my other Falcon. But I don't see myself doing that. I have a Firebee now :)
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:12 pm

joska wrote:I've had that Afterburner since 1997. I can assure you that I will never, ever get rid of it. If I were to buy a CT60 I'd fit it to my other Falcon. But I don't see myself doing that. I have a Firebee now :)

Correct... no real need except may be for completeness in collecting Atari high-end machines.
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby wongck » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:53 pm

I see that there is a demo showing dual screen, amazing to see the window moving from one screen to the other screen.
So much real estate now, great for developers developing software :thumbs:
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby Dal » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:07 pm

It is awesome to see this kind of feature on a humble Atari....
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Re: SuperVidel demo videos

Postby instream » Sat May 12, 2012 9:52 pm

It's been a while since this thread was posted to. But I have another demo video for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QKCZlPSWW8

This time it's parallax scrolling in 640x480 8bit chunky mode at 60FPS in 7 scrolling layers :)


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