Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

All about ST/STE demos

Moderators: Mug UK, lotek_style, Moderator Team

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:43 pm

Delirious 4 was one I was trying to "fix" in Steem like a big fool... and it worked already with Pasti.

Image

But I think it was on the 'non-working' list.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:50 pm

Yes, I can run it too with Pasti (or with Hatari without Pasti), but my problem is the STF/STE detection routines and whether this demo is supposed to boot/work under STF or not (or maybe there were several version released ?).
This demo has some bugs in the FDC loader routine, so I wonder if the non-STF support is a bug too or not (or is it a remaining emulation problem in Hatari)

Nicolas

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:20 pm

It loads in Steem in STE & STF mode for what it's worth.

I checked just one screen at random, and it didn't work in Steem, "Nightmare" by Hooligan.

Of course it will be fixed in the new version:

Image

Coming soon!

Technical info: the program makes a HI/LO switch to remove left border, but then a MED/LO switch to do horizontal scrolling, or that's what I think.
Last edited by Steven Seagal on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:35 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:It loads in Steem in STE & STF mode for what it's worth.


What do you call "STF mode" in Steem ? If that's just different video timings, then it's not enough to mimic an STF (STF should have no blitter, no dma sound, no hardware scrolling, ...).
Especially, this demo should crash on a real STF because it accesses STE dma sound registers (but I'd like someone with a real STF to confirm this to be sure)

Nicolas

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:52 pm

npomarede wrote:
Steven Seagal wrote:It loads in Steem in STE & STF mode for what it's worth.


What do you call "STF mode" in Steem ? If that's just different video timings, then it's not enough to mimic an STF (STF should have no blitter, no dma sound, no hardware scrolling, ...).
Especially, this demo should crash on a real STF because it accesses STE dma sound registers (but I'd like someone with a real STF to confirm this to be sure)

Nicolas


In Steem, only access to the blitter crashes. Since I didn't know which other ones crashed a true STF, nothing happens when a STF accesses STE IO (reads 0, writes nothing).
I checked other screens of this demo, and many don't seem to work in Steem, many challenges ahead!

Edit:
I've seen the strange 'STE only' behaviour in STE mode in Steem too now. It must be a brilliant bug in the demo. The first time I didn't see it because I was using TOS 1.0 by accident.

Edit2:
You're right about the crash on DMA sound access thing, some other demos take this as a test of STF indeed (PYM/ ST Connexion), so it's necessary to crash there.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:14 pm

I'm now looking at the NGC screen, it's horrible emulation-wise. It's yet another sort of "hardscroll".

For the moment I can render this:

Image

But I suspect there's something else swinging below, I just can't bring it up. I know those questions are never answered, but I'd like confirmation something's missing/wrong.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
spiny
Disk Imager Supreme
Disk Imager Supreme
Posts: 2634
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: just outside bristol
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby spiny » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:33 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:I'm now looking at the NGC screen, it's horrible emulation-wise. It's yet another sort of "hardscroll".

For the moment I can render this:

Image

But I suspect there's something else swinging below, I just can't bring it up. I know those questions are never answered, but I'd like confirmation something's missing/wrong.


can't you just check on a real; st ? :)

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:35 pm

Hello,

yes, the bottom border is missing (well, not in Hatari, as this demo is already working :) )

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:57 pm

A new version? I checked with 1.5 before asking here, it gave garbage too:

Image


can't you just check on a real; st ?


No, I have no ST let alone a STE.

Edit:
Still missing something? A border line?

Image
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:14 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:A new version? I checked with 1.5 before asking here, it gave garbage too:

Yes, that's in 1.6 that should be released in the next weeks.

Edit:
Still missing something? A border line?

Can't say, the picture looks fine now. Depends on what you did to make it work

Nicolas

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:26 am

npomarede wrote: Depends on what you did to make it work
Nicolas


Don't ask! At first I'm just trying to get the correct rendering.
I'm curious to see your analysis of these shifter tricks.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:11 am

Well, the 4 pixels scrolling on STF is a variation of the one used by Alien / ST Connexion, so that's something that was already supported in Hatari with slightly different timings (the general trick is too stay in med res for a determined number of cycles, so there're potentially many variations).
I also think this demo is buggy, some shifter tricks are useless ; they're completly valid on a real ST, it's just that they don't make any sense in this demo. My guess is that some timings are wrong, which "altered" the gfx on screen, so the coder shifted its gfx and some other parts of the code to make it looks good anyway. Still, that's an interesting test case.

Nicolas

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:48 pm

Thanks. I got it right now (hopefully), but it wasn't simple. There are 2 variations on already used tricks: MED RES scrolling and an "empty line" like in No Buddies Land, which I just fixed , but at other timings. It mystified me because I hadn't thought of the influence on HBL counter for bottom border removal, and it took me time to figure out how to tell Steem to draw the first overscan line (which was in fact simple). I'm a bit confused by the difference between nHBL & HblCounterVideo in Hatari.
It seems that in Steem an "empty line" was a black line, but apparently it should be no line at all (for the shifter, its pointer, its HBL count).
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
npomarede
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: France

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby npomarede » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:02 am

There're different kinds of empty lines, some are just black pixels (color 0 in fact), others have really "no signal" and pixel will be some kind of black, but not color 0.

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:02 pm

npomarede wrote:There're different kinds of empty lines, some are just black pixels (color 0 in fact), others have really "no signal" and pixel will be some kind of black, but not color 0.


But in Hatari, they're all marked by BORDERMASK_EMPTY_LINE.
In the demo NGC, I must use black pixels indeed or parts of the OSD ("Steem 3.3B") will fail to disappear!

Now another demo that was in Delirious 4 and didn't work in Steem, the STE-only 'Tekila'. At first it was a mess, a real bitch to fix. Now it's better. But is this graphic worth the trouble? I let you judge. It's not tequila for sure.

Image

Technical info: the demo uses both the horizontal scrolling STE register and the ability to change "on the fly" the shifter draw pointer. The techniques collide, maybe in a buggy way, I'm not sure.

Coming soon!
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat May 11, 2013 4:55 pm

Delirious 4 is one of those demos used as test of drive emulation due to its quirks.
But I'm surprised as the demos don't seems to run in STF mode, Steem or Hatari. I didn't try all, but all I did test crash, and I think it's related to DMA sound (STE-only) in loader.
I know there was a STF/STE detection issue, but is it possible that the original didn't run on plain STF?
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
nativ
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4106
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:26 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby nativ » Sat May 11, 2013 5:02 pm

Delirious 3 was an STe demo?

and further to your earlier point on it not working/disk access, Delirious 3 made the floppy drive create some nasty noises sometimes too ;)
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat May 11, 2013 5:18 pm

nativ wrote:Delirious 3 was an STe demo?

and further to your earlier point on it not working/disk access, Delirious 3 made the floppy drive create some nasty noises sometimes too ;)


I was talking about Delirious 4 but now that you mention 3, it's another trouble boy on its own (disk emulation).

Edit: about Delirious 3, it seems the programmer didn't disable interrupts, and drive selection is messed up.
In Steem it will work with Drive B disabled, which should be correct (programmer had 1 drive); or with both drives in fast mode maybe because the interrupts have no time to trigger! (drive select happens after the command 'read' has been sent).
In Hatari I see now way to disable drive B:

Edit: I think Delirious 3 was STE-only, it crashes on a DMA sound write, and I see no STF test before.

Edit: In current version Delirious 3 works with 1 or 2 drives, I was wrong.
It works in SainT (but crashes like Steem if STF), but hangs with Pasti.
I looked it up: seems to be a side change making Pasti unhappy...
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

axelf6
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby axelf6 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:48 pm

Hi

long time not coming HERE

THANKS A MILLION for your works

I can now watch DEL 4 again
very good job !!!!


DEL 3 was for STE only
i don't remember what i've done with the disk management... very buggy hehe

User avatar
nativ
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4106
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:26 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby nativ » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:50 pm

^ its his fault

I was thinking that as del4 came after del3.. that they already started coding in an STe way, and this might somehow effect things in relation to a STF ? just a thought! Del3 showed some great if zany potential! 8)
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

rpineau
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:39 am
Location: California / USA
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby rpineau » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:44 am

It's cool to see this after this long.
Hi Axel (we missed each other last time I was in France ....).
Thanks to all of you for bringing back one of our demo.

Regards, Rodolphe (PF from MCS).
Falcon + AB040 + Eclipse PCI + ATI Rage VGA card + NE2000 Ethernec + HxC Floppy Emulator
MegaSTE 4MB + CosmosEx / 1040 STF for hardware dev
http://www.rti-zone.org/atari.php

axelf6
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby axelf6 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:00 am

@nativ : yes the del 4 have been made AFTER the del 3
90% of the del 3 was made by me
10% of the del 4 was made by me => it was a true group demo with a lot of beer used during the coding .... good old time, isn't it rpineau ??



@rpineau : good to see you here
next time in france

rpineau
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:39 am
Location: California / USA
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby rpineau » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:48 am

Hi AxelF,
There was definitely a lot of beer involved in the coding of the Del4.
As you said, it was a real group demo and I have fond memories of that period with all of you guys.

Rodolphe
Falcon + AB040 + Eclipse PCI + ATI Rage VGA card + NE2000 Ethernec + HxC Floppy Emulator
MegaSTE 4MB + CosmosEx / 1040 STF for hardware dev
http://www.rti-zone.org/atari.php

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:55 am

There are still emulation mysteries in Delirious 4:
- Fulltrak not working
- Fake GEM intro, the mouse isn't centered.
I remember I "fixed" this in Steem SSE v3.5.1 but now I realise the "fix" isn't really correct because it breaks High Fidelity Dreams. In Hatari 1.6.2 the mouse was centered, but in v1.7.0, normally with better ACIA timings, it isn't. So maybe there's still a bug in Hatari and Steem or it did that on a real STE as well.
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse

User avatar
Steven Seagal
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:12 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Can anybody crack the Delirious demo 4 (included)

Postby Steven Seagal » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:46 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:- Fake GEM intro, the mouse isn't centered.


Now it is again, with different code...

Image"

Edit: forget it!
In the CIA we learned that ST ruled
Steem SSE: http://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse


Social Media

     

Return to “Demos - General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests