TCB

[jazz]

Some years ago TCB planned to release a follow up to their unique Cuddly demos. I remember having seen some screenshots of this new demo in some french magazines along with an interview of Tanis saying that the demo was almost finished. He also said that due to lack of motivation he wasn't sure of its release.

Screenshots were gorgeous and i guess the Flashback demo is only a teaser of the whole demo. Does anyone know what happened to this demo and TCB ?

And ultimately dreamers, do you believe they could possibly finish it thus living up their legend almost 10 years later ? Even an unfinished or preview version of this demo would be awesome. These guys definitively rule.

[manicx]

I always preferred The Lost Boys!

[keops]

honnestly, I really really doubt they ever release anything again on the Atari ST

[jazz]

Who knows ?

Lost boys ?? Hmm, i've always prefered the swedish maestros : TCB, Sync, Omega and Electra. The finest democrews on Atari IMHO.

[leonard]

British ? Swedish ? Naaa... Best ATARI freaks are french !

[purpleeagle01]

I think all Atari Peoples are very cool Guys,and the Nationality is not very Important
Cheers to all Atarians over the World

[Tanis]

Hi there.

Yes. We almost had it all finished. I even made a massive 'take the piss of The Lost Boys' animation thing. But none of the coders were up for coding that thing, so everything got canned. I guess Nick still has more or less the whole demo sitting on his old Megastore harddrive thingy. I might put up the graphics for the 'Kill the Lost Boys screen' on a page soon. I reckoned it was quite funny.

So, manicx... you always preferred The Lost Boys... Well... I guess not all can go to heaven... No, seriously. The Lost Boys were great guys.
One of my best friends is still Spaz... and Sprog of course. AND Digital Insanity. Manikin is also a good mate, of course. The 'Kill Carebears' and 'Kill TLB' stuff was just for fun. There was never any 'real' competition between us.

Spaz, Sprog and myself started our own 'side project' too, Alcoholica. We didn't do anything worthwhile apart from being idiots. But it was all good fun.

So, yes. The Flashback demo thing was just a small part of our Cuddly follow-up. It was the only screen that Nick turned into a releasable form and gave to me. I just thought it would've been a shame not to spread it further.

[ggn]

Tanis:

First of all, welcome to the forum

Secondly, we would all LOVE to see the gfx you mentioned (and someone might even turn them into a small screen )

So what's up with you and the other guys from the group? Could you fill us in with all the juicy details?

George

[Tanis]

Thanks. Okay... I'll take the first opportunity I get to put the graphics up somewhere. It's nothing major, it's just that it was such a bummer that I worked on that for some time, and then when it was finished noone could be bothered to code it. The bastids...

Well... what's up with us? I haven't talked to Nick, Jas or An Cool for quite some time now. I just got two kids, so life got turned a little upside down.
Working myself to a heartattack of course. Still working with graphics of various sorts. A bit of a design whore, I would say. You pay - I draw.

I gotta give Nick a call and see what he's up to these days... See if he still is working for Thermometric.

Oh yes, of course, GoGo, who joined TCB at the end of the ST era is doing a great job at BlueByte... but I would expect nothing less from such a great artist that he was/is.

I'll have to get back to you with juicy details later in the week... after I give Nick a maranthon phonecall to see what he's been up to these last 6-7 years or so...

[jazz]

Oooh, i'm so glad finally seeing one of TCB's member on this board. Welcome Tanis. Thanks for the info on your demo. I have more questions (he, he).

First, you seem to agree about the fact it was nearly finished. Could you tell us more about the screens/effects done for this demo. Any details would be great. What about the musics ? And what about the graphics you did apart from that great "Flashback" logo and the "kill Lost Boys" gfx ?

By the way, some sprites and pictures have been published in french "Tilt" magazine ( i remember Spaz turning as a match and maninking disappering in bubbles) courtesy of Dogue de Mauve.

And finally, the big question : any chance of having this demo released one day ?

[manicx]

So, manicx... you always preferred The Lost Boys... Well... I guess not all can go to heaven... No, seriously. The Lost Boys were great guys.
One of my best friends is still Spaz... and Sprog of course. AND Digital Insanity. Manikin is also a good mate, of course. The 'Kill Carebears' and 'Kill TLB' stuff was just for fun. There was never any 'real' competition between us.

Just saw the post and yep, I know. This was what made the Atari ST so beautiful and the demo scene one of the best things that happened to my computer life.

[IllegalException]

The last time (hmm...or there about...) I visited AN Cool he showed me Flashback and some other screens that supposedly were going to be in their last megademo. Very impressive stuff at the time and very "TCB"-ish in the way that they always did excellent releases.

Regarding TCB vs TLB I can only say that both crews were excellent but none was as revolutionary as TCB. Mindbomb was a good copy of Cuddly Demos while ULM took it a step further with DSOTSP and featured fullscreen-everything which was very impressive at the time. Still nothing was really as groundbreaking as Cuddly Demos was.

Btw, Manikin sure knew how to define the concept of having a bad stomach... At the International Coding Conference #2 we were (me and Lobo) were unfortunate enough to get among the last ones ending up right beside the loo... Free Coke/Fanta + crisps will do "stuff" to sensitive british stomachs.

[Mug UK]

Were Tanis, GoGo or someone else from the scene responsible for the excellent pixel animations in Neighbours From Hell? A most excellent game on the Xbox and one I regularly go back to

[jazz]

A cover of tcb unreleased demo and of its gorgeous graphics by Tanis by french magazine Tilt in 1993:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5296/tcb1gf.jpg

PS : Btw i'm still keeping all my fingers crossed in the hope of seeing this demo released one day.

[Tanis]

muguk: Hehe... that stuff looks real nice. I wish I had something to do with it, but unfortunately not. Neither does GoGo as far as I know, since he is quite busy with his work at BlueByte where he's been working pretty much since Thalion went bust.

jazz: Hehehe... wow. I never saw that article. Hehe... I wish I knew french. Thanks for posting that here. If you, or anyone else, ever come across more old articles about Thalion or TCB etc, I would love to see them. I really have no idea what was written about us back then, so seeing things like that is great! Thanks.
About the demo. Well... I will bring it up with the rest of the guys, but I am not sure they are up for it yet. I'll keep working on them...

[ASYLvM]

Excellent magazine scan Jazz - thanks for bringing it to us!

A bit of googling found TCB on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carebears_Demo_Crew





Cheers,

ASY

/|\

[AtariFan]

Tanis:

< If you, or anyone else, ever come across more old articles about Thalion or TCB etc, I would love to see them.

For reports about Thalion you could take a look at http://home.wtal.de/gmb/Artikel/artikel.htm. But beware, they are all written in German.

[jazz]

Another TCB feature, this time extracted from french "ST Magazine". This magazine was the reference magazine on the ST in France until mid nineties. At one point St connexion went to write a regular column about demos and the scene, later followed by technical articles written by sceners.

This is an interview with Tanis about the fortcoming (at that time) TCB demo. Pure nostalgia.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8365 ... ge25ee.jpg

[Tanis]

hahahahaha... yikes... that interview... geez... that picture is appalling. Brrr... thanks for posting that though... I can't remember that at all. Also thanks for posting those articles about thalion... I can always look at the pictures.... mind you, I'm a graphics guy so I always only look at the picture... text is boring.

Anyways... too little sleep... too warm... too big glasses... Those glasses actually saved my eye sight. I was playing with chemicals in my room when i stayed at my parents, and accidentely did something wrong which ended up with me blowing my entire room up. I hade loads of chunks of metal and glass wedged into the plastic of those glasses... so yes... they were awful (it was the 80ies though), but they were useful.

[leonard]

I don't remembered that article!

Hey Tanis I got many questions! First of all, the article said TCB fired Jas because he worked too much on PC and not on ST, could you give more information? To me, I learn demo looking at TCB demos, and everytime I saw a brainblasting screen (cf TCB3 or mainmenu in Sowat), the screen said "code by Nick and Jas".

As I really like to know info about demo history, could you be more precise about the exact role of "Nick" and "Jas" in TCB fame? (To me, Nick and Jas sounds a bit as "steve jobs" and "steve wozniack": two good friends, one "charismatic", and one genius, in the shadow.

How much am I wrong?

[IllegalException]

What I would like to know is how AN Cool teamed up with Nck and Jas? AN Cool was not a very typical coder in the way that he seemed to be coding just for fun instead of coding being his life...as I know it was for many elite people on the scene. I also noticed that some swedish crew-members looked down on AN Cool and called him the "TCB pet" among other degrading things... It is pretty funny that some of these guys (in very respectable groups) were all talk and not much action themselves. Then again, only TCB would keep "pets" with that kind of coding skills...

Curiosity:
"Seabear Studios" was the collective name of AN Cool's professional activities and was related to the street name where he lived with his parents, i.e. Sjöbjörnsvägen in Stockholm.

Cheers,
Thomas

[Tanis]

Well... I think 'fired' is a too strong a word to use. Jas's father had his company going where they constructed temperature measuring equpiment for science purposes. So when the ST started to 'cool', it was kind of natural that Jas's father asked for his son's services. So Jas started coding the software for his father's machines on PC. This was probably a bigger job than he thought initially, so we didn't see as much of him as we used to. And since Jas was a key programmer in the group, TCB came to a halt... and Jas also brings us to your second question.

Jas and Nick... Nick and Jas... yes. You're right... they were a 'package deal', I suppose. They were friends since the they were toddlers, and nothing could come between them. I wouldn't say that there was one genius and one charismatic guy... to be honest - none of them were particularly charismatic. Great guys in every way and brilliant minds, but not very social... or at least two very shy teenagers. Nick was perhaps the better coder of the two, but I don't think Nick would've been that great without Jas to discuss ideas with.
I remember one time when I visisted Nick and saw his bookshelf. Back then, my own bookshelf was probably most full of playboy's and art books and crap... his bookshelf was completely filled with books of quantum physics and quantum mechanics, which Nick read only because he thought it was fun. Needless to say, i couldn't understand anything that was in those books back then. I still am somewhat of a novice in that area. I suppose Nick always has a fundamental urge to understand everything around him... and see if he can make it faster and better. I guess that is what brought him to do Javaquake shortly after Quake was released - 'hey... nice game... i bet i can do that in java... jep... i could... cool.'
But like I said... I don't think Nick would have managed to do what he did without the help and advice from Jas.

An Cool on the other hand was more of a self going coder. I'd say he was the more charismatic of the coders. More social. More action-like. He got an idea, and made it. He didn't care if it was the fastest routine... he just wanted to see his idea on the screen. I believe, however, that An Cool always was more interested in making music than in programming. I also think An Cool also always was more interested in making money then Nick and Jas, who still aren't too impressed with the bling bling poo that's so popular today. After Java Quake, lots of games companies offered Nick and Jas loads and loads of cash to get them working for them... but to little use. They want to be at the steering wheel themselves and do what they think is fun.

[Arch Deviant]

Hi Tanis,

I'm interested in your final point about doing it for love rather than money. Is that why you all set up Thalion?

When I started coding for a living rather than fun it became a chore, I'd code in 68000 all day long then come home, look at the ST and think no chance... In some ways working as a professional coder ruined my coding, I had to use kernels of routines rather than develop everything from scratch and got lazy. This was made worse when developing for PC's as even back then people were starting to have the attitude if the game isnt fast enough it must be the machine not the code.

AD

[jazz]

Hey Tanis, i'm glad you liked these scans. Btw, i will ask you more questions

What about these other swedish pioneers from Sync and Omega ? Any news from them ? I still remember the nice graphics from Red/Omega, he surely was also one of the top artists coming from Sweden in the early days. Also, it would be interested to know more about TCB's view on other democrew, have you (i mean as a group) ever been impressed by other people's work on ST ?

[Tanis]

Hey Arch.
Well... I don't think that Thalion was started without any ideas of making money, and I am not sure what the reasons were that other people at Thalion started working there. I do know, however, that the reason Nick and I started was only because we thought it was fun. Another challenge if you will. Nick wanted to do a whole game as technically advanced as he could (Enchanted Lands) and I... well... I just thought it was great to work on games with old friends from the demo scene. Erik Simon, Thorsten Mutschall and I has been (and still are) great friends, and working together on various titles was just great fun. Of course - we were a lot younger back then, and didn't have the worries of life on our narrow shoulders, so money wasn't that important. As long as we could afford a few Hawaii burgers at Kochlöffel in Gütersloh (That was the most foul burger you can imagine. A real poo hamburger which they added a pineapple ring to, and called it 'hawaii'. Absolutely awful).
So to sum things up - I would think that around 50% of the developers at Thalion did it for love, and the rest went about it as a regular job. There were also a few administrative guys and investors working for Thalion, and I find it quite hard to believe that they did it for love.

Hey Jazz... Yes... those scans were great. Even though the demo scene were part of the start of the snowball effect of globalisation, internet was still nothing that had reached out of the universities. So unless you had people who sent you magazines every time there was something interesting in them, you really had no idea what was written about us in other parts of europe and/or the world. Seeing those scans are really cool. Thanks again.
Sync and Omega. Yep. I have a pretty good idea what they are up to these days. Red of Omega (I agree that he was a brilliant artist. No doubt about it) and I worked together at a small games company here in Sweden. After that he went to Digital Illusions where he currently works. Redhead of Sync also worked for the same game company. He, however, dropped out of the game making biz completely and is more focused on art. With art, I mean technical installations, such as holographic projections of the human brain and stuff like that. Awfully hard core programming stuff, with cool results. Haq of Omega (or was it Sync?) was another programmer at our game company, and he now works for Propellerheads (music software company). The Flying Egg of Omega was yet another coder at our company, and is currently working with games for handhelds.
Hmm... who else was there. Who did I miss? I know there was another guy from Omega that worked for our company, but I can't remember his scene name, and nor do I know what he is up to these days.

The TCB view on other demo crews. Well. It's been a long time now, and I can't really remember our views on specific demos. Our views of different demo crews varied. We really liked the other Swedish crews. The Flying Egg and Red of Omega could be a little arrogant towards us at times, but I think that was because they saw us as their main competitor. Without sounding cocky now, but we never really saw other demo crews as competitors. Not because we thought we were the best, but because that was not really the reason we were into demos. We were more curious if the thing we wanted to do was possible rather than beat records of sorts... and I... well... I just like drawing stuff... Anyways, TFE and Red were good friends... I wouldn't have liked working together with them otherwise.
The Lost Boys made us their target quite early, which gave Nick a laugh every now and then. Again, not because we thought we were better, but because it was quite flattering... and like I've mentioned in other posts - The Lost Boys and I were, and still are very close friends.
The Union members were always very close to us, which I guess I don't even need to mention considering half of all union members worked at Thalion at one point or another. TEX were the first, and that is worthy of all respect and admiration there is.

I remember one thing that really impressed Nick though. It was Dogue De Mauve's GFA Basic demo. He was very impressed what he managed to do in GFA.

Cor, it's been so long... I can't remember all groups and guys we've seen great work from. I think the reason I mentioned the guys above is because they are still people I see and talk to on a regular basis. So I am sorry if I missed out on people that I should've mentioned. There were so many excellent guys and groups... programmers, musicians and graphics artists back then...