daily jobs

All about ST/STE demos

Moderators: Mug UK, lotek_style, Moderator Team

rapido
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

daily jobs

Postby rapido » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:36 am

hi atari lovers,

this is my first post here, so bare with me!

i just hit this site and browsed *a lot* of backlog messages.

it is amazing that this forum exists. kudos to the moderators and maintainers!

the messages that are posted really kicks my fond memories.
ah, to be master of a restricted platform - what a joy it *was*
i still do love restrictions - but now it has grown into a personal fetish :)

my question to the forum is:

is it true that a lot of demo coders/musicians/artist went into game programming?

not to do draw too much attention to my person in this post: i work at a bank.
isn't that exciting?

don't worry: i do develop exciting projects, alas they are illuminated by moonlight.
wouldn't it be nice if our exciting projects would also pay the bills?

sounds familiar?
just post some urls to what (you think) is really exciting stuff!

happy new year,

rapido.

User avatar
Nyh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: daily jobs

Postby Nyh » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:33 am

rapido wrote:not to do draw too much attention to my person in this post: i work at a bank.
isn't that exciting?

Hi Rapido!

Happy new year too!

Still working for ING?

Hans Wessels

User avatar
lotek_style
Mod(ul)erator
Mod(ul)erator
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 2:39 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby lotek_style » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:12 pm

Welcome RAPIDO / SYNERGY :)
lotek style / the sirius cybernetics corporation
- musician - ascii-artist - swapper - archivist -

.tSCc. - low-tech atari cyberpunks since 1990
http://www.tscc.de/ | http://demozoo.org/ | http://www.lotekstyle.de/ | http://ymrockerz.atari.org/

User avatar
keops
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:39 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby keops » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:41 pm

There are a lot of sceners or ex-sceners at Electronic Arts and Ubisoft (also at Sony)

Speaking of bank, don't worry you are not alone, 2 Equinox guys work at a bank as well nowadays ;)

rapido
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby rapido » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:39 pm

Hey Hans!

i remember your *very* optimized version of 'the game of life'
applying some weird boolean algebra, using and.l, eor.l and or.l
cool!

you might be interesting in another version:
http://www.nsl.com/papers/life.htm
and in similar vein:
http://catpad.net/michael/apl

btw. the k/q language is pretty cool - check it out.

---

i also remember that you did a very efficient circle scroller.
but don't remember exactly how you did that <- care to share?

---

so hans, what's your daily job?
or is the price money already big enough to pay the rent? :)
http://www.ligfiets.net/fotoboek/fotoboek.php3?id=548

---

yes, i still work at ing (for almost 6 years now).
i have lot of freedom and a great team - i still like it.

technically though, i'm not really challenged.
that's why i'm asking you guys:

'what current technology/ideas makes your blood flow?'

here are my two cents:
one cent: esoteric languages at http://catseye.tc
another cent: quines at http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/quine.html

cheers,
robbert van dalen

User avatar
Nyh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: daily jobs

Postby Nyh » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:13 pm

rapido wrote:i also remember that you did a very efficient circle scroller.
but don't remember exactly how you did that <- care to share?

Very simple: I used an code generator makinig lines like:
"POKE 6992,-128 AND PEEK(392) OR 64 AND PEEK(393) OR 32 AND PEEK(394) OR 16 AND PEEK(395) OR 8 AND PEEK(396) OR 4 AND PEEK(397) OR 3 AND PEEK(398)"
6992 is a screen address and all peeks are into the scroll buffer, one byte per pixel: $ff if pixel is set, $00 is not. Because all buffers are very low in memory all memory access is done with word addresses.

I remember you had some very impressive 3D routines and quite interesting odd address error handlers to avoid comparing whether a pixel was in or out screen.

rapido wrote:so hans, what's your daily job?
or is the price money already big enough to pay the rent? :)
http://www.ligfiets.net/fotoboek/fotoboek.php3?id=548

Well, training for that is almost a full time job 15 to 20 hours per week. But it doesn't pay the rent. I am working at a factory building high voltage transformers. At the moment I am wondering why a computer controlled coil winder doesn't work. The machine is too old: it contains multiple Z80's. Wish it had a 68000 inside. The floppy controller inside the is a good friend of us: the WDF1772. Long ago I have written routines to read and write the disks used by the machine.

rapido wrote:technically though, i'm not really challenged.
that's why i'm asking you guys:

'what current technology/ideas makes your blood flow?'

Well, I am getting old, I still enjoy the Atari ST a lot. Playing with the 68000 and small algorithms is still a lot of fun for me. Cutting edge technologies for me are solar power, both electricity as heat generation.

I think HCI is currently a very interesting subject. The Iphone and the Wii are only the beginning. Interesting for a single person project may be spam filtering.

Hans Wessels

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby Desty » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:00 pm

Nyh wrote:I think HCI is currently a very interesting subject. The Iphone and the Wii are only the beginning.

A couple of guys beside me are doing some work with haptic feedback devices... "Phantom" and something else - one looks like a golf ball with arms attached and a couple of buttons. When you grasp the ball, it responds in a very clever way with force feedback... they showed me an OpenGL bowling game where holding the small ball felt like holding and throwing a bowling ball (weight (almost), inertia). Also, pushing a 3D cursor through a series of material spheres (jagged stone, honey (so you'd meet resistance, push forward then fall through the other side), ice (hard but slippery), etc).
Pretty amazing stuff really; much more interesting than the stuff I'm doing :)
tá'n poc ar buile!

rapido
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby rapido » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:27 pm

Nyh wrote:
rapido wrote:i also remember that you did a very efficient circle scroller.
but don't remember exactly how you did that <- care to share?

Very simple: I used an code generator makinig lines like:
"POKE 6992,-128 AND PEEK(392) OR 64 AND PEEK(393) OR 32 AND PEEK(394) OR 16 AND PEEK(395) OR 8 AND PEEK(396) OR 4 AND PEEK(397) OR 3 AND PEEK(398)"
6992 is a screen address and all peeks are into the scroll buffer, one byte per pixel: $ff if pixel is set, $00 is not. Because all buffers are very low in memory all memory access is done with word addresses.

I remember you had some very impressive 3D routines and quite interesting odd address error handlers to avoid comparing whether a pixel was in or out screen.


ah, that's pretty cool, peeks and pokes in omicron basic if i recall correctly.
it never occurred to me that omicron was a compiler.

if i remember correctly, the odd addressing trick was as follows:

move.w 0(d0.w,a0),d1
move.l 0(d1.w,a1),(a2)+

a0 is a table that multiplies d0 by y*320 * 4 + x*4, with a0 already offsetted to x*4.
if x or y went out of bounds, table a0 would turn d1 into an uneven offset.
this in turn, would cause a trap, patching the - out of bounds - drawing of the pixel.

the a1 table contained eor.b d(0-7),offset(a0) opcodes for every pixel on the screen.
once the full frame was (code) generated at address a2, the code would look like this:
...
eor.b d4,432(a0)
eor.b d1,1620(a0)
eor.b d7,88(a0)
....

with d0,d1,d2 ... holding 1,2,4,8... respectively.

then, this code was called twice: one for drawing, and once for clearing.

Nyh wrote:
rapido wrote:so hans, what's your daily job?
or is the price money already big enough to pay the rent? :)
http://www.ligfiets.net/fotoboek/fotoboek.php3?id=548

Well, training for that is almost a full time job 15 to 20 hours per week. But it doesn't pay the rent. I am working at a factory building high voltage transformers. At the moment I am wondering why a computer controlled coil winder doesn't work. The machine is too old: it contains multiple Z80's. Wish it had a 68000 inside. The floppy controller inside the is a good friend of us: the WDF1772. Long ago I have written routines to read and write the disks used by the machine.

amazing, that's really hardcore stuff!
that's what i call 'getting your hands dirty'

Nyh wrote:
rapido wrote:technically though, i'm not really challenged.
that's why i'm asking you guys:

'what current technology/ideas makes your blood flow?'

Well, I am getting old, I still enjoy the Atari ST a lot. Playing with the 68000 and small algorithms is still a lot of fun for me. Cutting edge technologies for me are solar power, both electricity as heat generation.


i believe germany has made big strides with solar power, also politically.
i certainly would love to work in the solar power industry.

Nyh wrote:I think HCI is currently a very interesting subject. The Iphone and the Wii are only the beginning. Interesting for a single person project may be spam filtering.


i'm interested the scaling up the concurrent/distributed/transaction problems that we (are going to) face.
here are some of my single person projects attempts:

http://syrup.sourceforge.net
http://www.enchiladacode.nl

cheers,
rapido

User avatar
Nyh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: daily jobs

Postby Nyh » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:59 am

rapido wrote:or is the price money already big enough to pay the rent? :)
http://www.ligfiets.net/fotoboek/fotoboek.php3?id=548

It does make nice video's: http://www.vimeo.com/2189894. This is me setting a new Dutch 200 m sprint record at 118 km/h.

Hans Wessels

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby Desty » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:42 pm

Nyh wrote:It does make nice video's: http://www.vimeo.com/2189894. This is me setting a new Dutch 200 m sprint record at 118 km/h.

That's pretty amazing. I barely hit 25kph on my short commutes :D You probably have enough stamina for a HPA flight then? (e.g. Gossamer Albatross, MIT Daedalus). That's one project I'd like to take on sometime (although it goes on the "might never really happen" pile, along with writing some games for the ST, learning a decent understanding of electronics, etc).
tá'n poc ar buile!

User avatar
Nyh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: daily jobs

Postby Nyh » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:56 pm

Desty wrote:
Nyh wrote:It does make nice video's: http://www.vimeo.com/2189894. This is me setting a new Dutch 200 m sprint record at 118 km/h.

That's pretty amazing. I barely hit 25kph on my short commutes :D You probably have enough stamina for a HPA flight then? (e.g. Gossamer Albatross, MIT Daedalus). That's one project I'd like to take on sometime (although it goes on the "might never really happen" pile, along with writing some games for the ST, learning a decent understanding of electronics, etc).

I have got enough power but I am afraid I have too much weight. In a normal hour race I do something like 330 Watt (measured with a SRM-power meter). My best effort up to now is 380 Watt for one hour. But I am quite long (about 2 m) and quite heavy (80 kg in winter, 75 when I am in top shape). The weight is excellent for someone as tall as I am but too much for a human powered plane.

Hans Wessels

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby Desty » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:38 pm

Nyh wrote:But I am quite long (about 2 m) and quite heavy (80 kg in winter, 75 when I am in top shape).

We have roughly proportionate height/weight, but I'm about 35cm shorter. So I might just make it, only I don't know the first thing about mechanical engineering :|
Did you have to build that (fibreglass?) aerodynamic shell directly for your shape, then? Sounds like hard work to construct the whole thing!
tá'n poc ar buile!

User avatar
bod/STAX
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:13 pm
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands, England

Re: daily jobs

Postby bod/STAX » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:34 pm

Weren't the members of Synergy ex-members of AEnigmatica?

If so Rapido and you were at the orgininal STNICCC you might find this link interesting:

http://timmoss.blogspot.com/
So let it be written, So let it be done. I'm sent here by the chosen one.

rapido
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby rapido » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:58 am

i attended the original stniccc in 1990, together with:
- bat (thomas van der heijden)
- scavenger (joris de man)
- zanac (eric zomer)

if i remember correctly, the lost boys and care bears were all located in one room at the first floor.
but i most vividly remember the overlanders, especially ziggy with his 3d stuff.

only one member of synergy, zanac, was an ex-member of aenigmatica.
although i'm not sure if mysteria (the creator of crapman) was an ex-aenigmatica member too.

at that time, bat, me and scavenger formed a group, called ... (i don't remember!)
but after 'elitarian' struggles within aenigmatica, we decided to create a new dutch group synergy.

synergy allowed people, with various talents, to be member.
for example, stash (erik 't sas) did mostly the writing of texts (and some code and music!)
erik 't sas is now co-owner of a dutch game company khaeon (http://www.khaeon.com/)

cheers,
Robbert.

havoc
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:05 am

Re: daily jobs

Postby havoc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:57 pm

hi rapido- long time no see...

> is it true that a lot of demo coders/musicians/artist went into game programming?

yep it is, even someone with thoroughly average skills like myself managed to do it in the end. after my studies (multimedia design) i worked for some time at (the now defunct) karma studios in arnhem, as a pixel artist for gameboy and mobile phone projects. it was nice to fulfill that childhood dream, but pretty soon it dawned on me that innovation in the games industry is not in the hands of the people who actually make the games, but upto those who design the gameplay. since i've never really cared much about playing games and thus designing gameplay, and had no desire whatsoever to leave my native soil, i ended up pursuing a career in the regular business world. starting out by following the adagium "bigger is better", i worked at holland's largest callcenter conglomerate, business software developer and potato fries production company, before ending up at my current job in the fashion industry ( http://www.oakley.com ). exciting? not at all... but that wasn't the point to begin with, anyway ;)

concerning working at banks and excitement, i heard such jobs pay pretty good, so there's plenty opportunities to find excitement outside your professional career. we can't all have *truly* exciting jobs, such as cagefighter, astronaut, minesweeper or domino d-day course designer. (well, kindof.)

anyhow, nice to hear you are doing well :)

User avatar
spiny
Disk Imager Supreme
Disk Imager Supreme
Posts: 2634
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: just outside bristol
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby spiny » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:25 pm

havoc wrote:hi rapido- long time no see...

> is it true that a lot of demo coders/musicians/artist went into game programming?

yep it is, even someone with thoroughly average skills like myself



I'd hardly say you were 'average' :)

re: working - torment people are doing:

I'm a software/hardware tester which I enjoy as it gives me lots of time to play with computers :)

rhino now writes or designs games for the iPhone

gnd does skydiving for a living :)

havoc
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:05 am

Re: daily jobs

Postby havoc » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:59 pm

spiny: so gnd wins in the excitement department, hands down :-)

jd
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Ruislip, UK

Re: daily jobs

Postby jd » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:58 pm

Well i work for RBS - which at the moment means i work for the british tax payer.

No economic debates please, my earhole has already had enough.

Thordarson
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 12:51 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: daily jobs

Postby Thordarson » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:00 pm

Some of the old sceners which I was in touch in in the old 8/16 bit days (c64, atari st and amiga) are now in sofware firms like Yahoo, Google, Opera, Funcom and others. So I would say that those who were above average in programming back in these days have a higher probability of being part of the software development scene today. I also think that those who really made quality stuff back then, still are better coders than those who started off directly on the PC today - I think that the old-timers who know raster time and cycles and such stuff are better at making slimware while those who start directly with high level programming etc are responsible of much unnecessary bloatware, because they do not understand or have not experienced that you actually can make great stuff with just a couple of hundreds of Kb.

As for myself, I programmed demos and other stuff on the C64, Amiga, Atari ST and PC (asm and mode 13h stuff) until I started to study to master in computer science. I quit programming on hobby basis at that time. Proffesionally I was the main coder of multimedia CD-ROMs which still is in sale today (educational software with lots of digitalised video), worked with that but it got more and more focused on video and then I started to work for a TV production company. In a way, all this is all like making demos. It is just about manipulating pixels on the viewer's screen :-)
Thordarson

User avatar
BoNuS
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby BoNuS » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:19 am

Hi Rapido (Robbert),

It's a while ago :) It seems that in 2009 old atarians re-discover atari(sites/forum) all over again.
Great turn of events !!! I will push Wingleader a bit more to join next saterday when he celibrates his
aging again ;)

I still program a little (VBA, VB6) for Akzo Nobel, but thats al. But I am working a lot of my time
in the HTE (High Throughput Engineering) part. Things like robot arms, automatic xyz machines
and those things.
Will start in my spare time with GFA for the Falcon again (if my girlfriend will let me that is :) :? )

c'ya around

Alexander BoNuS
http://bonus.home.xs4all.nl/
( I have just to much Atari stuff)

User avatar
Wingleader
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:56 pm
Location: Netherlands, Amersfoort

Re: daily jobs

Postby Wingleader » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:12 pm

Hi Rapidoooo (Robbert for friends ;-) )

As Bonus just stated he bugged me as like hell was freezing over and that on my birthday celabration, so here I am. Just made a little friends list and was reading some articles until I found this thread.

I still own a falcon (dust collector, and gave it yesterday to Bonus so he can try to fire his HD up) and my old STE. Even my fullblown 5 1/4" 640 MB SCSI HD is still here but since 2000 (STNICC gathering) never been used again.

Currently already working for 3,5 year for the Dutch Custom Office (Belastingdienst Centrum voor ICT (B/CICT) voor de Nederlanders, If you can't beat them join them) as a project manager trying to get out the technical detailed parts but it's difficult for me :lol:. Before this job I worked at KLM and had the opportunity to build on a new infrastructure /team that currently hosts most of the KLM webapps. (IBM Websphere on AIX).

Last year I reconnected to BAT, he is living in Australia and just became a dad. Bonus and I see each other frequently.

Cya Around on this forum and maybe later this year in real life ,
Arnoud WIngleader (Wingie in short)
Just found the original Crapman Sources on a 3/5" Disk (I still got all my disks here at home) with .PC1 pictures hahahaha

User avatar
BoNuS
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby BoNuS » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:51 am

Hi Wingie :cheers:

It's getting crowded here with "oldtimers" again. Let's see, I will try OTM also :) pushing back on the Atari track !
Let's make 2009 " Return of Atari "...
http://bonus.home.xs4all.nl/
( I have just to much Atari stuff)

User avatar
lotek_style
Mod(ul)erator
Mod(ul)erator
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 2:39 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Re: daily jobs

Postby lotek_style » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:18 pm

Atari-Forum welcomes WINGLEADER and BONUS :)
lotek style / the sirius cybernetics corporation
- musician - ascii-artist - swapper - archivist -

.tSCc. - low-tech atari cyberpunks since 1990
http://www.tscc.de/ | http://demozoo.org/ | http://www.lotekstyle.de/ | http://ymrockerz.atari.org/


Social Media

     

Return to “Demos - General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests