Oscilloscope waveforms

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Estrayk
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Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Estrayk » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:32 pm

Hello, I did not know if to put this in coder's thread or in this one. Anyway, this is my question:

I'm not a coder just a musician, but I know that is not possible capture the original audio-waves from our yamaha 2149f meanwhile it sounds, but I've thought an idea.

Will be possible capture the waveforms in an ascii table with an actual computer and after show them in the atari meanwhile the music is played?

I do not know if I explain myself very well. The objective will be play the atari YM music in a windows/mac/linux player that can show the Oscilloscope waveforms and capture them in text. Next make a musicdisk/player or whatever you want and try to transcode that table in graphics for show a "fake-wave animation" but that looks like real-time.

Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blvTpHlSaTo

This youtuber wrote in description that a software called ymscope can show the atari waves, but I cant find it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-a1TfaS7Y


Anyone can tell me if will be possible do it?

:angel:

P.D If you ask why the hell I ask this stupidity, is coz I'd like make a musicdisk that it show the Oscilloscope-waveforms and all coders that I ask told me that it is impossible. (like in C64) PCM audio yes, but impossible in PSG sounds coz are generated in realtime by 2149 and they don't pass by any dma and cannot be captured the waveform in a real machine.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby mikro » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:58 am

Wouldn't be just easier to port that ymscope to Atari and play normal sample files (from whatever sources - C64, YM, ...) with it? :)

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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:06 am

Estrayk wrote:...
I'm not a coder just a musician, but I know that is not possible capture the original audio-waves from our yamaha 2149f meanwhile it sounds, but I've thought an idea.....
Will be possible capture the waveforms in an ascii table with an actual computer and after show them in the atari meanwhile the music is played?
....
P.D If you ask why the hell I ask this stupidity ....


Wrong, wrong, wrong. Look any YouTube video captured from real Atari (so not from emulator), and you will hear "captured original audio-waves".
Waweforms in an ascii table ???? I think that you seriously confuse terms. Should do some research about what is what before posting some great ideas.

But I think that I got what you want:
Indeed, on Atari self you can not make digitizing of it's audio (capturing is used for video). On Falcon can. To make some waveform displaying in real time too probably enough powerful. Anyway, you want displaying while playing music via Yamaha on some ST.
There is the concept of how to create easily waveforms: use Audacity for digitizing audio from Atari. Then will have automatically the waveforms, what can stretch on screen. Then need to convert that in Atari compatible screen format, low res, so that displaying of it will not cost too much CPU time and RAM. Synced start of Yamaha playback and waveform displaying, and that's all.
I will leave coding of it to someone else. Too busy with hard disk adapt of Panza Kick Boxing :D

P.S. What you called ascii is actually simple binary format. Basically should convert that 8-16 bit, some 12-50 KHz sample to some much lower bit count, lower freq. sample, what then can display in simple way on Atari. Still, whole idea seems as overkill. Too much work will be needed for every tune. Syncing audio and waveform can be problematic too.
Maybe simpler would be doing impossible - that playback SW create waveform on fly - not by taking sample of audio output, but according to data going to YM - not easy, but certainly possible to create some simpler waveform.
Last edited by AtariZoll on Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby FedePede04 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:40 am

the video you point to, are wrong, the zero point is the center point, also the buzzer waveform are sometime render from the bottom and to the middle...
the sound on the Ay8910 and the YM2149 only move in the positive from 0-1 voltage and not from -1 to 1 voltage.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:44 am

FedePede04 wrote:the video you point to, are wrong, the zero point is the center point, also the buzzer waveform are sometime render from the bottom and to the middle...
the sound on the Ay8910 and the YM2149 only move in the positive from 0-1 voltage and not from -1 to 1 voltage.


That's really irrelevant. And you don't here sound from YM output pins, but from amplifier, where it goes exactly -1 to +1 voltage.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby FedePede04 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:26 pm

i don't agree maybe it sound the same but visual it would look different.

i know that you know a hell more on the subject then me,
but would the zero volume be -1 on the amplifier and volume 15 be +1, so the buzzer could still never be from -1 to zero like the video show, it would go from -1 to 1 or from 1 to -1
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Atarieterno » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:39 pm

I do not know if it will help or if it is related, but I think that "Replay Pro" (MicroDeal) has a real-time oscilloscope function and a deferred one for 3D spectral representation. Of course it's for samples, not for Yamaha chip sounds.
The "Quartet" program advertised that its compositions could be inserted into any program, since it included GFA, Hi-Soft Basic, C and Assembleur routines.
There is also the "Falcon030 Spektralizer" that could represent that music when capturing the video.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Estrayk » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:06 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I will leave coding of it to someone else. Too busy with hard disk adapt of Panza Kick Boxing :D


:cheers:

AtariZoll wrote:P.S. What you called ascii is actually simple binary format. Basically should convert that 8-16 bit, some 12-50 KHz sample to some much lower bit count, lower freq. sample, what then can display in simple way on Atari. Still, whole idea seems as overkill. Too much work will be needed for every tune. Syncing audio and waveform can be problematic too.
Maybe simpler would be doing impossible - that playback SW create waveform on fly - not by taking sample of audio output, but according to data going to YM - not easy, but certainly possible to create some simpler waveform.


I understand. Thx for the explanation Peter.
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby FedePede04 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:54 pm

btw this video inspired me to add something like in the video to my YM program....

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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Cyprian » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:48 am

that looks nice FedePede
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Zarchos » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:49 am

What is a Jaugar ?
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:01 am

Cyprian wrote:that looks nice FedePede


Many Thx :cheers:


Zarchos wrote:What is a Jaugar?


No it is a PC program.
If you only make scores/tunes using pure YM sound, then you can export them and play them on the ST series.

viewtopic.php?t=27326
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:17 am

Zarchos wrote:What is a Jaugar ?

Mistyped ZOO lifeform :mrgreen:
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Re: Oscilloscope waveforms

Postby Zarchos » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:26 am

AtariZoll wrote:
Zarchos wrote:What is a Jaugar ?

Mistyped ZOO lifeform :mrgreen:


hTats' hawt I hougtht oot ... :wink:
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